Message Category: Anything Else
Topic: Charity Running Programs - What Do You Think

Reply: From: Date:	To TNT Runner and Others With Similar Views Lee 11/21/05 3:36:43 PM ET
I applaud your statement that you would never have participated in the TNT program had they encouraged cheating. Unfortunately it appears that at least some of the TNT coaches and runners do not share your standards. The person who witnessed and first reported the cutting of the course by jeansmarines also witnessed cutting of the course by several TNT runners and even spoke to the TNT official who was directing them to do so. This is described in Ambry Burfoot's article on the Runners World Web Site. His article set off the kind of furious exchange of views triggered by the Marathonguide article and in that exchange of views a number of other respondants reported similar actions on the part of TNT runners and coaches at the Marine and other races. Hopefully such cheating has involved only a minority of TNT people and will be ended in the future but I am not optimistic in view of efforts of TNT related people to defend these actions, apparently out of the belief that since TNT runners are doing good with their fund raising, they have a right to be thought of as doing well with their running, whether they are or not. Post a reply on the Bulletin Board
Message thread: Charity Running Programs - What Do You Think - [John Elliott 11/14/05 9:01:42 AM ET] Yes it matters - [Bob Long 11/14/05 12:05:35 PM ET] They should follow the rules too - [Mark Seaburg 11/14/05 12:28:40 PM ET] Charity Running Programs - [Bill 11/14/05 12:49:29 PM ET] Question the Leadership - [Brian Adams 11/14/05 1:07:38 PM ET] Did JeansMarines Know that it was wrong to cheat? - [John Elliott 11/14/05 1:33:32 PM ET] All 26.2 or Nothing! - [Terri 11/14/05 2:03:45 PM ET] Marathons are for running - [sfrunner 11/14/05 2:23:01 PM ET] Interesting Information - [R. Evans 11/14/05 3:07:54 PM ET] Marathon Charity Runners - [ap 11/14/05 4:02:36 PM ET] Not good - [Phil 11/14/05 4:36:14 PM ET] cheating is cheating is cheating - [spieri 11/14/05 4:36:15 PM ET] what do they tell their friends - [Alan 11/14/05 5:43:26 PM ET] It's either a marathon or it's not - [Mark G 11/14/05 6:49:38 PM ET] Cheating is wrong and should not be tolerated - [SMP 11/14/05 8:56:20 PM ET] Preferential treatment - [Pati 11/14/05 10:23:31 PM ET] Runner with two perspectives - [RLY 11/14/05 11:01:58 PM ET] This breaks my heart - [Young Male 11/15/05 3:02:55 AM ET] My thoughts - [Robert 11/15/05 9:25:29 AM ET] Should Run/Walk 26.2 No Less - [RobertM 11/15/05 9:56:00 AM ET] Enough with 'self esteem' and play by the rules - [Richard Hubbard 11/15/05 10:02:31 AM ET] On the other hand ... - [SMP 11/15/05 11:16:22 AM ET] A Positive Thing (in the long run) - [hillrunner 11/15/05 3:30:05 PM ET] Marathonguide why are you sugar-coating it? - [Greg 11/15/05 4:44:10 PM ET] Absolutely Shameful! - [Frances 11/15/05 8:51:21 PM ET] Call me a running snob - [Kerry 11/15/05 10:44:33 PM ET] Marine Corps takes Integrity Seriously - [CJ Taylor 11/15/05 11:15:43 PM ET] The real problem is the training! - [Millie Katzen 11/16/05 7:03:25 AM ET] Flabbergasted!! - [Randy 11/16/05 7:51:31 AM ET] Good For Them - [Alan 11/16/05 8:05:57 AM ET] Let them have their own race(s)...... - [Bambi 11/16/05 8:55:15 AM ET] Alternatives for charity - [pati 11/16/05 9:11:55 AM ET] Cheating is cheating - [CTurk 11/16/05 10:57:48 AM ET] Why do you care? - [JackieR 11/16/05 10:59:06 AM ET] Get up and do something good - [Colleen 11/16/05 11:43:49 AM ET] Colleen ... you've got to be kidding. JM runners don't fundrais - [Kerry 11/16/05 1:40:44 PM ET] If you quit, you quit - [P. Bartels 11/16/05 1:41:07 PM ET] Reply to Colleen - [Bob Long 11/16/05 3:22:26 PM ET] One rule - [Phil 11/16/05 4:54:46 PM ET] Another Rule - [Cricket 11/16/05 5:57:56 PM ET] Colleen's "Charity Cheaters" - [Bambi 11/16/05 5:59:28 PM ET] Charity Cheaters (contd....) - [Bambi 11/16/05 6:00:52 PM ET] Pati and Bambi - [Cricket 11/16/05 6:45:33 PM ET] Bambi has got to be kidding - [Chris 11/16/05 7:18:14 PM ET] charity runners - [darrell sergent 11/16/05 8:08:20 PM ET] TNT Runner - [AggieRunner 11/16/05 8:23:23 PM ET] Is Charity-Running Itself the Problem? - [margotdarby 11/16/05 8:39:21 PM ET] Pati - Do your research - [runningmad 11/16/05 9:15:18 PM ET] Jeans Marines - Dr. Jean - [Kerry 11/16/05 9:39:38 PM ET] What a bunch of angry, hateful women - [CTurk 11/17/05 10:30:01 AM ET] "our own race" - [Tom 11/17/05 10:54:12 AM ET] A TNT Coach perspective - [Philip 11/17/05 11:16:23 AM ET] undeserved metals at Disney - [Andrew 11/17/05 12:30:40 PM ET] The Value of Marathon Running - [PJOlson 11/17/05 1:04:00 PM ET] Wow - [canuckrunner 11/17/05 1:59:49 PM ET] My earlier comments retracted - [Young Male 11/17/05 2:04:29 PM ET] Walking 26.2 Miles is NOT a Marathon - [Mike from Los Angeles 11/17/05 2:32:45 PM ET] Mike, are you REALLY that stoopid?? - [Andrew 11/17/05 2:54:17 PM ET] All are right - [Alan Birdsell 11/17/05 3:09:44 PM ET] Going to Extremes... - [Geoff 11/17/05 3:23:04 PM ET] Mike from L.A.'s Post..... - [Bambi 11/17/05 4:14:33 PM ET] TNT...Are they really Charity Cheaters? - [William Niesson 11/17/05 5:34:01 PM ET] William the great - [Chris 11/17/05 7:48:10 PM ET] YOUNG MALE - [Chris 11/17/05 8:04:14 PM ET] Sorry to hurt little Chris's feelings - [William Niesson 11/17/05 8:06:42 PM ET] Charity (ch)eaters! Get it? - [Bambi 11/17/05 8:19:43 PM ET] Try to understand and forgive - [Mervyn 11/17/05 9:15:27 PM ET] JM has apologized - [anne2go 11/17/05 9:56:25 PM ET] new to marathoning but already have opinion - [clubchick 11/18/05 12:29:50 AM ET] 1st time marathoner's view - [Tom Ross 11/18/05 1:12:42 AM ET] Chris is a loser - [Young Male 11/18/05 2:09:59 AM ET] New Website - [Bambi 11/18/05 5:21:33 AM ET] YOUNG MALE - [Chris 11/18/05 7:57:56 AM ET] William - [Chris 11/18/05 8:04:04 AM ET] Four things on my mind.... - [JoJo McQueen 11/18/05 9:57:51 AM ET] Teammates - [Tom 11/18/05 10:31:45 AM ET] Oorah! - [SMP 11/18/05 10:34:46 AM ET] Chris's feelings - [Tom 11/18/05 10:41:49 AM ET] Red Badges of Courage - [CJ Taylor 11/18/05 11:31:58 AM ET] Could this be ??? - [JackieR 11/18/05 12:11:08 PM ET] TOM - [Chris 11/18/05 12:57:23 PM ET] If you complete 26.2, you're a marathoner - [Janet 11/18/05 2:26:49 PM ET] Hey Janet - [Chris 11/18/05 3:54:28 PM ET] Whattodo? - [runnerbob 11/18/05 4:01:05 PM ET] from a charity marathon finisher - [Jerry Nairn 11/18/05 4:56:46 PM ET] Bambi - [Jessica 11/18/05 5:00:48 PM ET] Is it just me... - [Athena 11/18/05 6:00:35 PM ET] What does Mr. Webster have to say? - [You can walk all day . . . 11/18/05 7:02:22 PM ET] Dr. Jean's Apology - [Jerry Nairn 11/19/05 1:39:27 AM ET] Volksmarch - [Runnerbob 11/19/05 7:09:19 AM ET] Charity programs - [Millie Katzen 11/19/05 7:29:52 AM ET] Ruiz all over again??? - [Zeke 11/19/05 11:27:59 AM ET] ridiculous - [lem1234 11/19/05 2:00:00 PM ET] 1st Marathon and they should be ashamed - [joanne 11/19/05 9:11:39 PM ET] For most, TNT is an outstanding experience - [Rick R 11/19/05 9:49:52 PM ET] my opinion - [PD 11/19/05 9:52:00 PM ET] Slow runner - [philip 11/20/05 7:08:25 AM ET] Whose race is it, anyway? - [Janet 11/20/05 7:23:34 AM ET] To Chris - [Janet 11/20/05 7:31:02 AM ET] Who's race is it any way - [Tom 11/20/05 9:04:12 AM ET] Tom's got a good point - [runnerbob 11/20/05 12:14:15 PM ET] Cheating the real finishers - [Royce Jacomen 11/20/05 12:46:57 PM ET] not Rosie Ruiz, just a slippery slope - [margotdarby 11/20/05 1:25:40 PM ET] yup-Tom is correct - [kr 11/20/05 1:32:28 PM ET] TNT Runner - [Glenn 11/20/05 6:23:48 PM ET] economic reality and second-tier marathons - [margotdarby 11/20/05 7:13:13 PM ET] time limits - [Geoff 11/20/05 9:34:55 PM ET] Here's why! - [Disgusted 11/21/05 12:04:43 AM ET] I've got an idea! - [Disgusted 11/21/05 12:12:13 AM ET] I'm Puzzled Tom - [Roger 11/21/05 12:31:49 AM ET] The last word - [Bambi 11/21/05 6:34:55 AM ET] Don't be puzzled - [Chris 11/21/05 9:07:29 AM ET] On second thought - [Chris 11/21/05 9:40:14 AM ET] Some questions - [Pam 11/21/05 9:52:45 AM ET] Don't be puzzled - [Tom 11/21/05 10:02:38 AM ET] Geoff,Disgusted,Pam - [Tom 11/21/05 10:20:13 AM ET] Bambi/Thumper..Get it Thump(her) - [hillrunner 11/21/05 11:25:10 AM ET] Programs are fine - [Patrick Lynam 11/21/05 11:53:10 AM ET] There are enough races for everyone - [G8rrunner 11/21/05 11:53:37 AM ET] Hey Bambi...it is your old pal, "thumper" - [Thumper 11/21/05 12:23:01 PM ET] I think this discussion has gone awry... - [Run42 11/21/05 1:03:19 PM ET] Having said all of that.... - [Run42 11/21/05 1:10:02 PM ET] Hey G8rrunner... - [Run42 11/21/05 1:37:56 PM ET] Geoff - right on the mark, but.... - [Run42 11/21/05 1:48:10 PM ET] re: Geoff - right on the mark, but.... - [Geoff 11/21/05 2:36:10 PM ET] To TNT Runner and Others With Similar Views - [Lee 11/21/05 3:36:43 PM ET] RE: "JM Has Apologized" - [Lee 11/21/05 3:46:10 PM ET] To Run42...not sure what you mean - [G8rrunner 11/21/05 4:01:29 PM ET] The Jury Is Still Out on TNT - [Disgusted 11/21/05 4:02:46 PM ET] Re:"JM Has Apologized" - [Lee 11/21/05 4:11:45 PM ET] Charity Only Races??? - [girlrunner 11/21/05 5:25:17 PM ET] The Reality - [Mike from Los Angeles 11/21/05 6:05:38 PM ET] giving people like me a bad name - [Stephen Tobey 11/21/05 9:05:32 PM ET] Team to end stroke got it right - [strollerpusher 11/22/05 1:46:53 AM ET] A casual observation - [Richard Pendergrast 11/22/05 6:00:47 AM ET] Team to End Stroke - [Bambi 11/22/05 9:16:50 AM ET] What I find most disturbing - [Run42 11/22/05 10:06:23 AM ET] Does Bambi speak for all runners - [Pati 11/22/05 10:39:21 AM ET] RE:Does Bambi speak for all runners - [PJOlson 11/22/05 10:55:58 AM ET] G8rrunner.... - [Run42 11/22/05 11:03:01 AM ET] Well said PJ - [Run42 11/22/05 11:15:23 AM ET] There is no justice - [Bambi 11/22/05 11:56:26 AM ET] I really have to admit it... - [Slow Kona guy 11/22/05 3:17:54 PM ET] last word on this topic - [Mervyn Chin 11/22/05 6:11:02 PM ET] Well said, Mervyn - [Bambi 11/22/05 6:27:36 PM ET] Charity runner, now a Marathon runner - [Deb 11/22/05 7:18:08 PM ET] respect the event - [TomR 11/22/05 8:07:13 PM ET] Yikes! - [Maureen Milliken 11/22/05 10:45:40 PM ET] charity vs cheating - [BJeanne 11/22/05 11:23:15 PM ET] Thanks - [Maureen Milliken 11/22/05 11:43:31 PM ET] That somewhat irritating Penguin culture - [Arnaud 11/22/05 11:53:35 PM ET] Pro Rata???? - [Mike from Shanghai 11/23/05 4:15:33 AM ET] Re: Charity Running Programs - What Do You Think - [Mike from Shanghai 11/23/05 4:38:01 AM ET] Bambi, you vile thing! - [runnerbob 11/23/05 12:46:15 PM ET] Mike From Shangai-Another Limiting Factor - [Lee 11/23/05 1:07:32 PM ET] Why are you so angry? - [Steve Parsons 11/23/05 1:37:05 PM ET] Charity doesn't mean slow - [Maureen M 11/23/05 1:56:18 PM ET] TNT Info, Cheating - [Steve 11/23/05 3:03:44 PM ET] Bambi is clueless - [Jeff 11/23/05 9:32:30 PM ET] Race etiquette - [Arnaud 11/23/05 10:33:23 PM ET] To Lee - great post - [Mike from Shanghai 11/24/05 1:12:16 AM ET] Now that I'm a slower runner. . . - [Janet 11/24/05 6:37:03 AM ET] Happy Thanksgiving! - [Bambi 11/24/05 7:59:46 PM ET] Bambi you are hilarious !!! - [Arnaud 11/24/05 8:07:43 PM ET] to Bambi - [diane 11/24/05 11:12:54 PM ET] It's all about respect - [Stephen Tobey 11/25/05 2:12:48 AM ET] To runnersBob - [Arnaud 11/25/05 2:45:53 AM ET] Thank you..... - [Bambi 11/25/05 7:56:16 AM ET] respect and marathons - [kevin dolan 11/25/05 11:20:11 AM ET] a question about charity runners... - [Geoff 11/25/05 2:35:10 PM ET] Charity runners do get their trip - [Al 11/25/05 3:03:11 PM ET] The funniest thing is - [Stephen Tobey 11/25/05 4:21:26 PM ET] Charity Running Programs - What Do You Think - [Cameron 11/25/05 4:32:46 PM ET] Hell Yes it matters. - [John Tackett 11/25/05 6:22:36 PM ET] expenses for charity runners - [Geoff 11/25/05 7:17:49 PM ET] Not all charity runners get fees, etc. paid - [Maureen Milliken 11/25/05 7:56:42 PM ET] a break down of where the charity money goes - [Arnaud 11/25/05 8:36:50 PM ET] Stephen, - [Arnaud 11/25/05 8:45:01 PM ET] thanks maureen - [Geoff 11/25/05 9:29:32 PM ET] Where is the money going - [Tom 11/25/05 9:46:35 PM ET] Geoff just a Little shifty? - [Tom 11/25/05 10:06:26 PM ET] where the donation money goes? TnT example - [Arnaud 11/26/05 1:00:55 AM ET] Wow - [Darylljsmith 11/26/05 9:11:46 AM ET] I find it somewhat odd - [Stephen Tobey 11/26/05 2:10:30 PM ET] Tom - just a little shifty - [Geoff 11/26/05 2:38:28 PM ET] Shifty - [Tom 11/26/05 4:28:18 PM ET] Unearned medals - [Tom 11/26/05 4:41:01 PM ET] Stolen valor - [Tom 11/26/05 4:55:12 PM ET] Stephen gets it right (again)! - [Bambi 11/26/05 5:57:28 PM ET] TNT's Overhead Costs - [Lee 11/26/05 7:27:33 PM ET] Hey Lee.... - [Bambi 11/26/05 8:39:33 PM ET] overhead costs and runners benefits -Lee - [Arnaud 11/26/05 9:14:13 PM ET] enough 'o that shit! - [Arnaud 11/27/05 4:40:52 AM ET] 42.2 km away vs. 8.85 km up - [Mike from Shanghai 11/27/05 9:52:48 AM ET] Mike from Shanghai.... - [Bambi 11/27/05 5:18:55 PM ET] Thanks Bambi - [Lee 11/28/05 8:24:34 AM ET] Everyone has an opinion - [Dave 11/29/05 9:43:08 AM ET] To Bambi - [Dave 11/29/05 10:06:11 AM ET] Charity Running Programs - Yes!!! - [Charlie Riesz 11/29/05 4:16:10 PM ET] Semper Fi Charlie! - [brain 11/30/05 9:09:43 AM ET] Thank you Charlie - [g8rrunner 11/30/05 10:14:17 AM ET] Re: Semper Fi Charlie! - [Charlie Riesz 11/30/05 4:28:18 PM ET] Re: Thank you Charlie - [Charlie Riesz 11/30/05 4:29:40 PM ET] cheaters - [hammer 12/3/05 11:03:55 AM ET] Shame on you - [Geoff Martin 12/4/05 1:08:56 PM ET] Rob peter to pay paul and glow wild - [jj 12/10/05 3:27:20 PM ET] Love the Bambi comments - [HeyHey 12/29/05 4:58:18 PM ET]

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